Announcement - Changes to Legacy SmartThings Platform

#27

WCmore to the rescue!

#28

From ST in the link I posted above

But the dev has posted he will make a lite smartapp that will work with the new ST API. No date on when that will become available.

#29

Thanks. I saw that after I posted!

#30

IMHO, based on ST’s direction of sunsetting (aka killing) the wildly popular “Echo Speaks” as a “platform performance issue”, do we really think that ST/WebCore is going to be long lived once the project management team looks at the next highest performance issue shared app. WebCore made ST’s automation capabilities 100% better than any other 4th generation language product I’ve ever used. It was and is ahead of it’s time. Of course, being a great end user developed shared app will not have any weight in the decision to place it on the upcoming chopping block!

Not to be doom & gloom in this exciting ST migration, I predict a 2021 announcement that ‘ST automations’ will sunset the ‘Classic WebCore’ smartapp in favor of a more streamlined ST offering. For many ST users who do more than a simple ‘if trigger then scene/device’, that will be the real nail in the ST coffin, given that WebCore does 99.9% more than ST automations.

It goes without saying, that WebCore does run on another home automation platform and some users with advanced automation requirements may seek alternatives.

Future of WebCore Concerns
#31

SmartThings cannot kill something they didn’t develop; they can only kill the platform on which it is based, which they have already announced that they will do in 2021.

The question is whether @ady624, the creator of webCoRE who is now with SmartThings, will—along with devoted members of the webCoRE community—follow up on his proof-of-concept design for a version of webCoRE that will work with the new Rules API. I remain somewhat hopeful, though not optimistic as the silence has been deafening.

As for those who are worried about losing webCoRE and all the work they have put into it, there is always Hubitat.

#32

There’s a clip from Samsung’s Developer Conference last Oct and from what their were saying Webcore is going to become the front facing UI of the new Rules API going forward. Just instead of making everything in groovy it’ll all be JSON and you can login to the “new” webcore that’s on the new servers and the new API and from what I’ve played around with it’s the same as we have now. Not as robust yet bc there’s alot of new code to written to make it don what we can now but doesn’t seem like usability will decrease.
SmartThings/Samsung wanna get more users so they want to make things “simple” but at the same time not alienate us at the same time and Webcore being more front and center is supposed to do that for them

Future of WebCore Concerns
#33

https://sdc.webcore.co/

#34

Samsung and SmartThings have never formally supported webCoRE, and there is nothing in that presentation or any other since then that indicates that is ever going to change. All Adrian (the creator of webCoRE, who is now working for Samsung) did at that conference was present a proof-of-concept (which, by the way, was last updated in June of 2019) for a webCoRE-style interface to work with the Rules API. Here are two direct quotes from his presentation (at approximately the 35-minute mark):

  • “We are encouraging the community to help us move more webCoRE functionality to this new API to reap its benefits.”

  • “We have taken the first steps to demonstrate how webCoRE can work with the Rules API, but it will take a community effort to make it happen.” (emphasis added)

I have yet to see any evidence that there is any ongoing development of a “new” webCoRE here or anywhere else. That is not to say that it might not be happening behind the curtain somewhere, or that development might not be on hold until the new Rules API is more complete, I’m just saying that any definitive statement regarding the future of webCoRE (if it has any) is at best premature. As a result, anyone who intends to remain on the SmartThings Platform and has invested substantial time in webCoRE in terms of piston creation and development, should be very cautious moving forward.

#36

Isn’t this where hubitat can step in?

#37

If you’re thinking of going in with hubitat, wait until the dust settles on the newest firmware zwave issues. Get the new hub but don’t go all in, yet :slight_smile:

The nice thing about HE is you’re not forced into upgrading firmware if you want to survey the effects first.

#38

My interpretation was that there was an intention to develop the Rules API so that it would be capable of replicating pretty much anything that webCoRE can currently do (excluding some of the stuff like direct integrations with third party services). At that point it would be possible to reimplement webCoRE as a front end for the Rules API. Others, e.g. SharpTools, would be free to do the same. I don’t know how well the Rules API is progressing, but I do know that a lot of what makes webCoRE really tick is that you can’t just read it like a script - there is stuff like TCP, TEP and TSP going on too - so the Rules API will have quite a bit of work to do.

It was suggested that migrating webCoRE would involve a significant community effort. Given there has been an update to webCoRE in test for over four months that has seeming generated little response from users (including me), I wouldn’t blame anyone who might feel a bit sceptical about that happening. I guess that is because it isn’t clear where the project leadership will be coming from yet.

#39

Not sold yet. I rather not switch at all but need to see how Echo Speaks, Webcore, Rooms Manager, Hue Smart, and Ecobee SmartApps handle these changes.

#40

I agree. I know that I’m coming the game late (Jan this year) but I still hope that we don’t get left to the wayside for the more abundance of amateur users that don’t have the skill or the will be get more advanced with these product like we do

#41

I’ve been using webcore on hubitat for almost 1.5 years now. While improvements have been made to the app, I still find it less reliable than webcore on ST. I use both. Set schedules tend to get missed from time to time and large pistons can be difficult to open at times (generally requires a reboot of the HE hub). YMMV

#42

It would be good to share examples of this so it can be looked into.

#43

What other ST SApps have you used on both platforms and what has your assessment been?

#44

The only two ST that I use that were ported over are webcore and NST manager. Other apps I use are built in apps from hubitat or a few custom apps from developers over there. Do you want an assessment of those apps or hubitat itself?

#45

Just an overall assessment of the gap analysis of the two programs. I didn’t see a post on community.smartthings.co on which devs/SApps will be moved over to the new app. There are several I use that are vital to my setup so I have to see if those are on HE or will be written with the new API.

#46

There is a thread on the ST forum in regards to th tools that developers will use to convert their Smartapps and device handlers for the new app. Right now it looks like rough going but I would imagine in time everything will be worked out and developers will be successful in the migration of their code :slight_smile:

#47

Everybody else refers to that thread as a train wreck.