Fibaro Double Switch 2 & Webcore

#1

I’ve got a few observations & a question about this setup.

I purchased a used Fibaro double switch 2 off ebay for use in my kitchen lights project. I’m only interested in the power monitoring on the switch so my piston can determine if the lights have been operated manually. As an aside, the lights are a futronix scene controller with an IR remote. A logitech hub sends IR to this via my lighting piston.

Observation 1
The fibaro must be factory reset if it hasn’t been removed from its previous hub, before you can add it to the new hub. The instructions to do this are not in the included booklet, but are available on fibaros web site. Its a bit tricky to do, but once done the switch added correctly using the new app.

Observation 2
Having added the switch, two devices are available “fibaro switch” and “fibaro switch - usb” corresponding to output 1 & 2 on the switch. When I tried to add these to webcore (via the new app) only the “fibaro switch -usb” showed up under switches. I found the other output under the power meters category and added it from there. I’ve written a test piston to confirm that webcore can switch correctly, and it does. So just wondering why the first switch is not shown when you try to add it.

Question
As I mentioned, I’m only using this switch to monitor the power used by the futronix. So when its turned on manually, the power rises and I can set the virtual switch to on. My question is around how often to sample the power usage. The fibaro can be configured for this, default is 3600s, but it can be lowered to a min of 1s. I need something responsive, but do not want to flood the network with power readings. I’m not sure if the fibaro would only report if the power changed, but guess it could vary anyway. i.e it samples every n secs, but only sends an update if the value has changed from the previous reading.
I’ve noticed my existing samsung switches send very numerous power messages, so wonder if I’m just over thinking and should set the fibaro to 1s?

#2

It is nice when we have the option of tweaking the delays between readings…

If you wanted to test real-life scenarios, you could temporarily set it to a low number, and then create a test piston something like:

IF Device's power changes
    Then Log to console = $hour":"$minute":"$second
END IF

If you let it run for a few hours, your log will tell you how many times it really triggers.

This is good to know when determining how often to set the delay.

Note:

You could add extra code to count + 1 at each event, and send you the total each hour before resetting… but that may be overkill for a 4 hour test.

#3

This isn’t going well! I think I may have hardware problems.

I originally set the switch up “on the bench” next to the hub, with no load attached. It seemed to work fine, turned on/off, and every hour reported the power usage (according to the ST app) I think installed it in the consumer unit, and it seems ok, switches on/off etc However I then wrote the following test piston as you suggested (I know line 17 is not required, it was just to see the value when I hit test)

image
image.png1178×438 22.9 KB

But, I’m not getting power change events, I am seeing at random times
received event [home].execute = nn.nn.nn.nn … where nn.nn.nn.nn is my external ip

I tried changing the power reporting to 5 sec, and still no power events.
Looking in the ST ide log (and the log on the classic app) I see
2020-10-03 12:26:24.077 AM BST
10 hours ago DEVICE multiStatus Sync incomplete! Open setting… Sync incomplete! Open settings and tap Done to try again.
2020-10-03 12:26:14.050 AM BST
10 hours ago DEVICE multiStatus Sync in progress. Sync in progress.

In addition, twice the device has turned off, on its own, but the app still shows it as on.

I’ve also noticed in the IDE under route, it goes via another fibaro in the consumer unit. That fibaro goes via a fibaro dimmer in another room to the hub. I think the other fibaro in the CU works ok (it always has but isnt used often as its just some outside lights)

Both fibaros are using the same DH, checking the power on the original, do show a power update when the device is turned on. I don’t understand why the network route uses the fibaro dimmer in another room (same room as the hub is in) rather than a samsung ST plug socket in the same room. I’ve tried a network repair several times, which hasn’t resolved the problem, although I do see more lag on the working fibaro in some mesh configurations. Wondering if fibaros will only mesh with each other too?

I’m not sure where to go next, does this sound like a network issue or a faulty device or the extra network hop?

#4

I am curious… Is “Keypad 1”:

  • “fibaro switch” … or
  • “fibaro switch - usb”

(since only one was found under the power meters category)

#5

This portion sounds like something incomplete with the setup process, or a DH issue.
(although I guess hardware issues could cause the same error)

Same thoughts as above…

#6

I’m not getting power events from either.

keypad 1 is the “fibaro switch” - this is the main device and the one you use to change settings for both. The “usb” is the child device.

I’m increasingly thinking its a network issue. The other fibaro next to it works fine, and this one did when it was close to the hub. I’ve run the z-wave network repair several times. Different paths seem to be created, but the fibaros only seem to mesh with each other. There’s a samsung smart socket very near that neither of them use.

I may have a spare fibaro dimmer 2, so might wire that up and place it midway between the consumer unit & hub. If that works, I wonder if I can get a z-wave range extender, but not sure the fibaro will use it.

I tried the above piston with the working switch, but found the power is reported immediately when it turns on or off. But as its only running a relay, there was no power change to check the periodic reporting.

I’m no longer getting the sync messages. I don’t think its the DH, as the same one works on the working switch. I think the custom one I use to use has been replaced with an official one. O also tried the z-wave double switch DH, but that doesn’t report power/

#7

I’ve continued to investigate potential network issues.

I added a new, sealed fibaro dimmer to use as a range extender. However, it took multiple attempts to pair, even six feet from the hub. They used to pair instantly. I almost gave up it was that difficult, wonder if its an issue with the new app?

I’ve noticed the samsung devices are zigbee, so that explains why fibaro only seems to mesh with fibaro!

I’ve put the “fibaro repeater” midway between the hub and the switch, but am struggling to get the network top rebuild the mesh. I’m getting errors in the log, “can not delete old route” and “can not assign new route”. So its still trying to operate in the same way.

Another question, what is the range of a fibaro / z-wave device?

#8

Sorry for my delayed response…

I posted a detailed breakdown a while back, but for some reason, I cannot find it now.
(Maybe it was in a private message with a client?)

I believe Fibaro uses Z-wave… but according to their FAQ:

Q18) Is there a possibility that neighbor with a similar system will interfere with ours?

A) No, there is no such possibility. The FIBARO System is based on the Home Center gateway and every one of them has a unique identifier. In order to control a device, it has to be added to the HC memory, otherwise it will neither be visible nor controllable.

I do not have any Fibaro in the shop at the moment to test, but this sounds to me like:
Even though it uses Z-wave protocols, it will not mesh with other brands.

Can any Fibaro user confirm this?

My other post went into more detail, but here’s a quick summary on Z-wave specifically:

  • Only 4 hops between Z-Wave devices are supported
  • The network itself is limited to 232 devices
  • Operates on the 800-900 MHz range of RF (less interference)
  • Range of 50-100 feet indoors, depending on line of sight or walls

Here is a great 15 min video that covers the pros & cons of the 3 major protocols…
(Z-wave, Zigbee & WiFi)

#9

Thanks, thats a great video.

  • So z-wave has better range. I have smartthings sockets(zigbee) and fibaros (z-wave) next to each other. Only the fibaros seem to have trouble with range. The zigbee device is communication directly with the hub, the fibaros are meshing back to the hub.
  • Wonder if something else is interfering with the z-wave? There is a hive hub & thermostat very close. just checked hive uses zigbee.
  • Does installation in a consumer unit cause issues with electrical interference?

The z-wave meshing seems very strange. I keep running the z-wave network repair utility, and sometimes get different network paths. Its strange that 2 fibaros next to each other get completely different paths. One seems to make one hop to the hug (and works) the other is making up to 4 hops (and tends to go off line or works very sporadically) It’s frustrating that you can’t build or influence the meshing table manually. If you turn off devices to try to force a route, the repair fails on any device that was routing via one of the missing devices. I suspect you would need to remove & add the device again to get round this.

I’m sure I have a networking issue, but not sure if its because the device I’m struggling with has a weaker radio than it should.

#10

This is actually common…

It won’t help with static wall outlets, but rotating the hub (or other devices) even 20 degrees can sometimes make quite a difference… (If a bulb acts as a repeater, it can even be partially unscrewed to get a new path)

Note: Some wall outlets have an way to manually adjust the angle of the antenna…
(just be careful you don’t void the warranty)

Bonus Tip: Some wall outlets can be installed “upside down”, and still look and work normally. If this is the case, it can make a big difference on the pathing. (since the antenna has rotated 180°)

Don’t forget that the hub (or some devices) can also me moved a foot to get different results. Combine this with my last tip, and we do have some influence. :grin:

I don’t remember if we had this talk before, but also keep in mind that certain appliances (fridge, microwave, TV etc) are practically impenetrable, and can even create noise around it… Impacting the signals, and thereby, the path. I try to keep those type of appliances outside the line of sight between the Mesh devices… If possible.

For a tiny example:
Imagine I had an Z-wave device to the left and right of my fridge…
Even though the devices may be 3 feet apart, it may have to do the full 4 hops to get around that appliance.

#11

Thanks for all the tips, I’ve learnt a lot about z-wave networking.

I’ve spent too long trying to get this to work, and given the troublesome device is 2 inches away from an identical fibaro, I’m inclined to think its a faulty module. (it was cheap off ebay)

I’ve ordered a new one now, so will give that a go, and hopefully the problems will be resolved.

#12

Latest update…

This gets stranger. I ordered a new switch from amazon, set it up next to the hub and added it to the hub via the new app. It added ok, but did report something about not all features being supported and mentioned security. The fibaro DH was picked up, the same smartthings supplied one my older devices use. However, the switch only responded to the first turn on message, then just reported network error. Changing the DH to the generic z-wave DH seems to resolve the problem.

While using the Fibaro DH you can change the settings for the device successfully. I’m guessing the problem is when the switch sends a response to a turn on/off request.

I’m wondering if the latest fibaros do not work with the smartthings fibaro DH.

#13

That would be my guess as well…

I have started seeing this in various ecosystems… (much to my chagrin)…
It’s almost like the “brains” are trying to guess what handler to use…
(and often guessing incorrectly)

Personally, I do not mind having the option for a “smart-select”…
but I would prefer it be optional. (and not tamper with the choices I have made)

Just my two cents.

#14

I’ve emailed smarthings support. I suspect the Fibaro DH does not work with later fibaro firmware.

The switch works fine with the generic z-wave DH, so its not a network issue. I’m wondering now if the original switch was ok.

The problem with the generic DH is that it only seems to send a power report every 15 mins, even though the fibaro is set to send more frequently. I need a fast response so my piston can respond to manual operations and set a virtual switch as appropriate.

I’ll update with any useful info from smartthings support.