Webcore groovy deprecated, new integration needed. Where to start?

#1

Hi!
I just create this post to see where we are in concern of the smartthings groovy depracation. As you probably know, Smartthings is about to release edge, a brand new platform api to bring all automation directly on the hub. Everything will be local so less delay…etc

The down side of it is that the groovy (ide and webcore) will be deprecated so most of the dth will be automatically transfered in in-hub drivers, and for the other part, it will required some driver devellopement to integrate all feature and even the device itself.

The main point here is that webcore is on groovy, wich mean that it will be deprecated too. Webcore is able to run on its own server but it will not be linked to smartthings using those smartapps anymore!

I saw that its going to support jason output and could be use to feed the new edge api but the only concern is that smartthings rely on this community to do something, they are not working on it and not sure if they ever would… So I was wondering if some developpers have already take a look at this and where we are at this point? What should be done first, what is those step to achieve something?

Sorry if it missed some informations or if some is not exact, but I just create this post on what I understood on this and the goal is to regroup all the information to help the community to devellop something. (latest date is around september 30 2022, so not a lot of time left).

Thanks!

#2

I believe that ship has sailed on getting webcore to work with the new Rules API. The developer has left SmartThings and most of the webcore minions have moved over to Hubitat. The topic for continuing webcore has been brought up many times since ST first announced the switch to Edge Drivers, LUA and Rules API and no one has stepped forward. With less than 45 days, I doubt anyone would be able to undertake the huge task for getting it to work with Rules API and even if they were able, Users would probably need to run it on their own hardware and figure how to install what is needed to run it.

your options at this point:

  • move what you can to Routines or Rules API
  • check out SharpTools Rules Engine for more complex stuff
  • switch to hubitat where webcore will live on

who knows… perhaps motivated users will find a way to keep webcore running with ST

#3

webCoRE is faster and more stable on Hubitat. Even better, it is developer supported with HPM allowing easy upgrades. Just saying…

#4

I saw that webcore already output json that could feed the rules api. So its not to far but the only problem is as you said where to run it? They tell that they will allow some limited smartapps but dont know how they would integrated them.

Is it a possibility to extract webcore piston as drivers in the hub? Or as hubitat do to run it locally…
I saw a lot of thing also from andy himself who explain that community could do something and that its already working with json…etc also a user told me that he saw it running with the beta rules api…

Webcore is a separated entity that have its own hosting…so we could have an account and just export a kind of json that represent all automation and then add it to the hub…

Its hard to know where to start and where to go… The new rules api and rules engine seem good but never as good as webcore was…Its frustrating that ST just leave the best automation things and go with a simple rules api wich seems to be limited! They should bring it …I would have to buy another hub just to keep webcore…no sense!

#5

yes! That s what I ll do I think! They just loose their costumers to hubitat! Why dont just bring webcore as hubitat … if I have to buy another hub all my automation will follow on webcore and hubitat…so the ST hub will just been garbage!

#6

Any chance that webcore on hubitat will go away in the foreseeable future? I know one person that has a ST hub that uses WC, and another person that plans to install smarthome tech in his new house. I’d hate to steer either to Hubitat if there is a chance that WC will stop all together without the smartthings install base.

#7

I’ve been moving automations to SharpTools pretty successfully so far. I have to say it has the advantage of being at least somewhat explainable to other members of my family, which webcore was NOT.

At this point I’m more worried about losing custom groovy device handlers.

#8

which devices? good place to search for Community Edge Drivers is the ST forum and there is a thread you can ask Developers if they might assist with building a Community Edge Driver. There are already many new Drivers available and more on the way.

#9

Webcore already works locally on hubitat hub… Is there a way to do the same with smartthings? Because if we follow the same concept and be able to install it locally, the only things it would need then is to output a json for the api… and I saw that WC is able to do it already (they shown it in a video sdc.webcore.co was in realtime buildind the json from what they added to piston) so with few drivers to get all functions it should works…

I m I the only that think that what they are doing right now is a hudge step back for us? Maybe in 10 years it would be close or even better but for now… Why dont let groovy run the time all conversion are done…

#10

Could you post the link to the page with this export to JSON feature? Your link here does not go to a real page.

Thanks

#11

Hi!
Here the link, I had just add the url they gives in the video to use webcore but the url seem not to works…maybe a dev only thing? But look at that video, in the first post, we see andy himself explaining what they have planned from the bigening I think… but the plan seem to have changed because they looks like they wont make any changes on webcore and andy is not with ST anymore…

But I really think that webcore could be translate to lua and build as a new api smartapps driver or something… It would be a very powerfull transition but nobody seems to know what must be done or where to start! Wich code need to be translated? the smartapps? How to make it a driver or something? If someone could make a video to explain all of this it would be awsome! Someone told me that ST have made some groovy code to make some informations availlable to webcore or something… so, if we translate webcore will we have to translate those groovy insider code too? If so how since its a ST thing?
If anything could be done to keep webcore I would be there, I m close from getting a blooding nose, all my automation would be gone next month!

Also in the video we see clearly that he already makes a part of the job… so where to find it? How to access it? Why dont he just gives us access and use it? He said that the cummunity would update it because its open sourced… well!

Have a nice day!

#12

I don’t want to be too forceful in this answer, but the average software engineer makes over a $100/hr in the US.

I do have experience with webCoRE source code and would expect a rewrite/port to support ST going forward would be several hundred hours of developer time. Which makes it over a $10K+ project. A Hubitat hub is around $100 and runs webCoRE better than ST ever did.

I hope the folks asking for a ST community solution understand the economics are not in their favor. It is time to move on/over or write a big check.

I will add - If you are looking for a replacement rules engine for ST: SharpTools is fairly robust and would be a target replacement for ST+webCoRE. SharpTools is a yearly pay service, which honestly would probably be similar to any port of of webCoRE since the ST platform no longer supports native SmartApps (which is exactly what webCoRE is). This means it will need to be hosted on a compute stack, which someone has to pay for…

#13

yes for sure we know that, its just that for the customer experience its a hudge turn off! Its like buying a tv and learn that you need another one because the wont play the sports channel on it…
They already had a great tool with webcore and they should let both service on until conversion is done… They just wanted to devellop their own but its a start from scratch projet and even after 2 years+ they are not yet ready… And again, rules api are not so powerfull that they claim, look at hubitat with their great rules api… its a great tool but never as powerfull as webcore is!
Its a personnal things but if I had their buisness I would have develloped a compatible thing. For their team its a little thing, lets say 1000 h of work with a team of 10 devellopers = 100h so 3 weeks…
Maybe for us who dont have the buisness it seem a lot but for them to offert a real powerfull hub… its as little as flip a switch!
But I think its a little over that because from start they hired handy and the plan was to turn webcore into rules builder but something have changed…
Well! have a nice day!

#14

I just want to ask something if someone could be aware of it… I dont understand why we could not use webcore with the new rules api from the outside… I mean, sharptool works well with the new rules api? So, if we could just have a login to webcore somewhere, we could ‘link’ our account to our hub and then:

The hub could use a driver to send a simple list of devices with their state. So webcore get this list and could use it to run pistons… each time a device changed in the hub, the hub send the information to webcore and if a piston or something need to run it does… and webcore could send back to the hub a list of devices with their new state…

So it have no need to be connected directly by ST with all their things… Just a Json with all the information that being send back and forth… The only thing with this is that it would need something to prevent looping (hub send switch on, then webcore trigger on the switch changed and send back switch is off, so hub put it off and send back switch is off… so webcore trigger again…) it would need that when the driver in the hub receive the webcore json, it simply make the change without sending back, assuming that webcore made the changes so the switch is already register in the code…

It just need a way to ‘simply’ run webcore on a web interface or something… The best would be a local computer but could be online too… I like better have a delay on an automation than no automation at all or just simple one…

Logically, webcore dont need any ST or Hubitat to run… for now they are linked together to supply device state directly or so but webcore is simply a kind of api with an interface… If we could just make it run and as I said make it store the list of devices and state… it could be very powerfull and could be compatible with any system or so…

I know this is not so simple but I think it could be done better than trying to install it locally or to incorporate it directly with ST… Webcore already have its own server somewhere so for what I see its just to make it run and feed it with values…

Thanks everyone!

#15

Even if it were possible, it’s not going to happen unless you write the code personally.

#16

if only someone would let us a kind of step list I would try but I not a dev or something… So I could try to translate the groovy into other language but its pretty hard to know what to do… Just translating the smart app? To wich language? and it need a place to install it… all we need is the api behind it and then feed it… well!

#17

I think what you describe is some major coding and design effort. If you don’t understand the current webCoRE code, it is likely a bridge too far…

#18

Honestly, anything is possible with sufficient money and time. However, as has been stated several times, there is a simple solution that’s already available and does not require a lot of either time or money to take advantage of…Hubitat. I’ve been with SmartThings a long time, but once I saw that Groovy/webCoRE was going away, it was an easy choice. I waited until the end was announced at SmartThings and then spent about 6-days to convert my entire 100-device system using my 44 pretty complex pistons, and moved to Hubitat. It’s all working very well.

The cost of the Hubitat hub and the conversion time is extremely small when compared to what you’re proposing. Move to Hubitat. You’ll be happy you did.

#19

Just converted last week. Thanks for all of your advice - this thread was very helpful to convince me to go.

I was tempted to stay on ST when I saw they had an edge device for virtual devices, which was missing before, but after trying sharptools, and seeing it’s complete lack of features I needed and looking at what it would take to learn enough js to use ST’s (Ady’s!) rules engine directly, the decision was easy. I expose various automation features to my family selectively via actiontiles dashboards, and the fact that this is supported (currently free public beta in actiontiles if you have ST license) was final piece I needed to make the jump.

There were a few rocky moments with some device drivers and devices that were finnicky about pairing, but all good now. Just took a day to switch devices over and a week to get 90% of my automations either converted to simple or 5.1 rules or modified webcore pistons from ST backups to run in HE webore (locally!).

Do be aware that there are some differences in HE and ST built-in variables and how they are handled (no $twc weather and different handling of time values), which will require some modification to some existing code, but no roadblocks I’ve found yet.

I do wish HE had a better mobile app, and was a bit more user friendly, but appreciate more complete control over everything that is lacking in ST.

#20

Hi,
I use a lot $twc weather in some of my pistons… Is it completly off or is it a possibility to make a web request somehow to get those value? Is there a kind of $twc weather with edge driver or something?
Thanks! I m just about to convert so Its important to know!